Where is the 2cents worth?
I was going through Sammyboy Forums, of which the ratio of good, readable content to trash-talk/flamewar/whining is approximately 1:1000. Whenever I sift through the site I feel like I am a lone diver trawling the entire span of the Pacific Ocean looking for less than half a dozen pearls.
I was actually looking for AcidFlask related material, when one forummer queried about how the opposition parties failed to get in their 2 cents worth on the AF-A*Star saga.
I pondered upon this thought for a while. I was surprised, as I am inclined to think that this was the exact kind of subject material the Opposition Opportunists love to capitalise on. They were indeed strangely subdued over this matter.
A few seconds later, the answer hit me like a tonne of falling bricks.
UPDATE:
This was meant to be a brief observational post on opposition parties silence over the AF-A*Star affair. Interestingly it has garnered (imho) various top quality comments ancillary to the original post.
To find out more about Han's indignance at being labelled 'pro-PAP', Redrown's (me) 'anthropological' study of Sammyboy Forums, Gilbert Koh's reaction to SDP's unauthorised lifting of his articles, Goh Meng Seng's (WP) opinion of non-partisan bloggers and name calling, and Huichieh's excellent justification and clarification of (non-partisan) bloggers position, click on the comments!
UPDATE 2:
Huichieh continues to chew upon the role of non-partisan bloggers in civil society, reflecting on Jeffrey's insightful comment. As he (Jeff) aptly puts it, we are simply "Equal Opportunity Commentators". That would be a good starting point for anyone who do not fully appreciate our niche.
I was actually looking for AcidFlask related material, when one forummer queried about how the opposition parties failed to get in their 2 cents worth on the AF-A*Star saga.
I pondered upon this thought for a while. I was surprised, as I am inclined to think that this was the exact kind of subject material the Opposition Opportunists love to capitalise on. They were indeed strangely subdued over this matter.
A few seconds later, the answer hit me like a tonne of falling bricks.
UPDATE:
This was meant to be a brief observational post on opposition parties silence over the AF-A*Star affair. Interestingly it has garnered (imho) various top quality comments ancillary to the original post.
To find out more about Han's indignance at being labelled 'pro-PAP', Redrown's (me) 'anthropological' study of Sammyboy Forums, Gilbert Koh's reaction to SDP's unauthorised lifting of his articles, Goh Meng Seng's (WP) opinion of non-partisan bloggers and name calling, and Huichieh's excellent justification and clarification of (non-partisan) bloggers position, click on the comments!
UPDATE 2:
Huichieh continues to chew upon the role of non-partisan bloggers in civil society, reflecting on Jeffrey's insightful comment. As he (Jeff) aptly puts it, we are simply "Equal Opportunity Commentators". That would be a good starting point for anyone who do not fully appreciate our niche.
posted by redrown at 12:54 AM
60 Comments:
I'm extremely annoyed by that Omega Na Hu's Your Daddy guy.
He's clearly a dumbass. He accused me of being a pro-PAP and anti-opposition guy!
Me! Of all people!
And because I cannot stand idiots? What an asshat.
Bah...that forum is only good for sex-talk.
Han: hahaha..if only they could appreciate the wide spectra of hues available between black and white.
and also they still don't seem capable of realising the sacrilegous magnitude of what they did (SLMJD-lifting)
when we kindly point it out to them, they take it as an affront.
no surprise then that they wouldn't try to chip in and 'defend' us (bloggers) even if that would precipitate their primary aim as the opposition, as in their linear world we are henceforth one of their adversaries.
Daniel: special mention must be given to the polls, where one can find out gems of trivia such as number of prostitutes haters and Fiona Xie lovers...^_-
but should we take what goes on in the sammyboy forums seriously, considering who goes there ...
i thought the only useful information is to gauge how far the impact of the issue has spread within the singapore internet community ... sammyboy forums seemed like a stepping stone to kopitiam talk
... ok i give them credit for promoting local porn scene.
ok i take it back ... the articles they talk about are worth some thoughts, but their comments are entertainingly amusing.
redrown:
And Omega Na Hu's Ur Daddy accused me of being rude! I mean, ok fine, I'm rude, but they're just so asking for it...
They set themselves up so perfectly to be satired and parodied, its like all the work's done for me and I just have to put it together. sigh... these people don't appreciate my art.
redrown:
And on topic, I agree with you, its just like you said.
These fako 'Opposition' people don't see why they have to defend us when we so harshly criticize them. They fear us, because we have the means and the power to expose them as frauds.
We have logic and reason on our side. I mean, come on, anyone with half a brain reading our critique will see these 'Opposition' poseurs for the opportunists and snake-oil consters that they really are.
And like you said, they completely do not appreciate the sacrilegous nature of that act of copying SLMJD and pretending as though GK endorsed that copying.
I personally feel that misrepresenting someone else's ideas is probably the most heinous crime anyone can do.
But then again, you can't really expect people who haven't had an original idea in 20 years to respect ideas, do you?
Whiteout:
Well, this is my impression of Sammyboy Forums:
Out of 10+ posts, one post will actually attempt a proper discussion by pasting a news article or raising a serious topic. The others will focus on Fiona Xie's boobs (very nice, confirm fake one but anyway she is a slut), why we should all leave Sinkapoor (bcos Sinkapoor SUX) , how all sg-girls are materialistic b*ches (Because they refuse to look at me for even one sec, boohoo) and how poor sg-guys are all dying because of NS. (because NS is exploitation by gahmen)
In the 'serious' post, there will be 1 or 2 serious replies, followed by another 10 or 20 which goes along the lines of 'Pappy Sux'
2 or 4 people will get into a flame war with each others, usually involving somewhat colorful language. This has the potential to drive the number of post replies up to triple figures.
The resident lone girl will post an inane comment and suddenly she gets threatened with all sorts of vile comments. This ALSO has the potential to drive post replies up to triple figures. In fact a new topic post may be created just to emphasise how 'prostitute' she is.
Sam will post a one-liner saying sg guys are wimps and whiners and the guys will start whining at him like wimps.
No one remembers what the original topic was about.
__
And this is not what I'm used to hearing. Not at my local kopitiam anyway...heheh;)
Han 641:
They set themselves up so perfectly to be satired and parodied, its like all the work's done for me and I just have to put it together. sigh... these people don't appreciate my art.
Hahaha..well..I do..and your readers too...in fact, it is most probable that they are the only people not to take too kindly to it ...
Han 647:
What makes it even more sacrilegous is that it is clear they have absolute disrespect for GK's political beliefs, by deliberately misrepresenting GK as one of them... And they expect people not to take issue with that, when they are a political party. SIGH.
Actually, come to think of it, misrepresenting/copying IS a unique idea. Don't think anyone else has ever resorted to it before..
i recall kopitiams with old winkled uncles complaining about government policies that affected them directly, whist other domestic discourse. i remember that within the less-than-intellectual conversation were a few points that reflected the issues that the common people were facing.
i also remember a friend complaining that when she walked past old winkled uncles at a kopitiam the uncles said "小姐，看过来leh" (hey miss, look over here leh)
but you know what's the scary part? the analysis that redrown did regarding sammyboy forums is so very true ...
heheh well in some ways Sammyboy is the online version of a kopitiam, i guess the difference is that in Sammyboy most of them are behind a veil of anonimity and that emboldens them to more extreme and colourful behaviour and language .
Last week the Straits Times interviewed me about the Acidflask incident.
They also asked me one or two questions about the fact that the SDP had swiped my SLMJD articles.
I answered all their questions about Acidflask, but I declined to answer any of their questions about the SDP incident.
One reason was that I didn't want to muck up the issues (ie I wanted their article to stay focused on Acidflask instead of branching off into other things).
As it turns out, it may not have mattered - since the ST, so far, and as far as I know, hasn't featured any of my comments at all.
However, one thing is that the Acidflask incident did lead me to view the SDP incident in a slightly different light.
I suppose I could write a very fierce, lawyer-ly sort of letter to the SDP to tell them to take off my articles from their website. And threaten them with legal action for copyright infringement etc.
That was what I intended to do at first, anyway.
On further thought, that would make me somewhat similar to Philip Yeo, wouldn't it?
I object in principle to the SDP stealing my articles, but I object even more in principle to behaving like a bully.
So - what the heck. I'm not going to write any fierce, threatening letter to the SDP.
All I'm going to do is leave the SLMJD blog skeleton up, with the notice in the sidebar stating that:
1. the SDP has used my articles without my permission; and
2. I'm not related or associated to the SDP.
Philip Yeo doesn't know it, but he's saved the SDP's ass.
redrown: +1000 for your analysis of the sammyboy forums! You cracked me up big time. Maybe you really are the paragon of humour ;)
as an aside, is the level of intellect in the sammyboy forum a good indication of that of the general s'pore population? :x
daniel:
how about using it as an indicatior for the number of singaporean wankers who have access to the net?
GK: Ah, so that is the reason why the posts are still up at the site. Ever thought of at least emailing or writing them a civil, 'kindly worded' letter requesting them to take it down?
If you hadn't informed us, I would have been inclined to think that you were actually a member/contributor to them. Thats how deceptively misrepresentative they have presented it. People who went to their site but have no knowledge of your own site's disclaimer would be misled as well, I would think, and have unwarranted preconceptions of your political affilations.
PY saving SDP's ass. Now thats one big irony I could chew on for quite a while. I guess SDP cluelessly returned the favour by not getting in on this act. heheh.
Daniel: Heh, actually, I would think it serves as a good indication of the repression/frustration/ineptitude of the Sammyboy community. Due to its 'atmosphere', it has a disproportionately larger number of self-defeatists males.
I do believe though that there are many other level headed people (including a lot of girls) in Singapore who read the site as well, but find it futile to attempt a post of reason.
redrown redrown redrown... why on earth do you peruse those forums in the first place???
shianux, i realise you've met Larry Lessig! that guy's cool, sial.
heh, i did mention, i was looking for AF related material. Allow me to save you the trouble of going there and let me share with you some gems of wisdom that I gleaned:
1) PY is a [insert derogatory term here]
2) PY has a small ****
3) PY is a degenerate scum bla bla
4) PY is also known as Failip Yeo
5) PY and Pappy Gov should be [insert some violent comeuppance here]
6) Cheryl Fox is a slut
__
I have to resist the temptation to further make digs at the forums..
yeah i read that bit, and i read the bit where you liken it to trawling the Pacific Ocean for a few pearls. I still don't get why you were looking there of all places! :p
by the way, I propose that the image of one digging through a filthy gutter for a ten cent piece would be more fitting.
This post wasnt really meant to be a Sammyboy Bashing post but i guess the nature of Sammyboy unraveled itself along the way, as did my general distaste for a good portion of its content. Which is why i chose ocean/pearl rather than gutter/cent analogy. Heheh.
erm i'm abit late, i really just think that SGLoyalist is pissed off that we label the opposition as a whole. It might even be possible that he feels SDP has behaved in a wrongful manner. But seriously, he made a big mistake of calling han pro-pap hahaha....
hahaha...well...it was highly amusing=)
I hate to say this but when people view opposition parties as "fake" but at the same time, wonder why they didn't "defend" their rights, I would say, what's your point?
Armchair critis are everywhere and some have very good logical views on the surface. However, one must understand the structure of power and what matters most to the ruling party. You could give all the good reasonings and argument you want, it will only "itch" the ruling party or they wouldn't even be bothered with you if there isn't anything defamative against them!
It is only through partisan politics that one could exert the maximum influence to the ruling party via the direct threat to their power base by participating in GE. You could just sit there and call people like us "fake" for all you want, but we are the ones who are risking our lives, families for this single belief: political competition will bring the best out of the policies.
But I also understand that partisan politis alone cannot change Singapore's political landscape. However, such name calling by by-standers here is really unwarranted. We thread a very thin line of very little margin of error. And for the record, we are definitely not any less smarter than anyone of you here.
Goh Meng Seng
singaporealternatives.blogspot.com
Re: Goh Meng Seng's comment
1. "The opposition is fake/stupid/etc." I would not endorse this point as a given. Obviously, particular opposition leaders, proposals, moves, etc., can be fake/stupid/etc., but so likewise particular PAP personnel, moves, etc. When such charges are made, presumably it's for some reason (e.g., as was done in detail by Han, the Ink crew, etc., for the Casino statements). I would encourage both the one charging stupidity/fakeness and the one being accused to look to the specific reasons and to carry on the dispute there. The rest is just name calling.
2. The opposition is politically partisan. This is obviously true. In fact, the opposition would be useless if it were not partisan. But this is also a reason why individual bloggers (not necessarily all bloggers though) are uncomfortable with being associated with the opposition--because they are not comfortable with partisan politics period. (There is a price to pay for that; below 4.) Ditto for bloggers being smarter than the opposition.
3. It is rude of a partisan to "enlist" the words of a non-partisan in such a way as if the latter endorses the former's position, and yet without his consent. I have not actually read the quotations of Gilbert on the SDP site, but if they are as Gilbert reports them, all I can say is: shame on you SDP, you can surely do better than that!
3b. On the one hand, I salute the partisans--of all stripes, actually, for their passion enough to be partisans. I would only remind them that not everyone is a partisan, and that our being unwilling to be partisan is not necessarily a sign of stupidity, lack of resolve, brainwashing, whatever. Surely the world is big enough for all types.
4. If someone wants to change Singapore in some big and obvious way--i.e., at the level of policy--he's better off taking MM's advice. Form a party, contest the GE, i.e., become a partisan. The rest of us ("us" because it includes "me") should be aware that armchair criticism can only go so far in making any real impact. And I think most bloggers understand this quite well. We remain armchair critics not because we have illusions about what we can achieve or the nature of power, but because we have different ambitions.
For this rest of this comment, the term 'blogger' shall refer to a person who belongs to the 'non-infantile social group' as defined in McDermott's (2005) ethnography of Singaporean bloggers.
I'm just thinking of the 'partisan' label. One problem, at least in SG, is that once a group/person is explicitly labelled as 'opposition', and worse, if it has a capital 'O', is that almost immediately, the conditioning kicks in. All the images and feelings one has with jailtime, defamation suits, family in danger, whiners, wimps, bondbreakers etc. all rush in at once.
Bloggers have it a bit better. Bloggers start with 'B', it won't illicit an immediate conditioning response.
Bloggers can also have a partisan POV, but as far as I can see, it's partisan on the side of 'reasoned argument' and 'unspinning the spin', but like Loy suggests, it's not partisan on the side of politics. It is decidedly non-political (probably a result of my big 'O' conditioning hypothesis) except for those like Goh's that is explicitly aligned to a particular party. It doesn't have to be political to achieve its aims. And yet it's making a difference in the level of discussion, which eventually, might be benefitial to Goh's cause, but that's not an immediate intention, at least it's not mine.
Let me come back to Goh's understandable frustrations. I agree that bloggers in general are not risking life and limb for a cause, but I don't really agree that 'to change things in a big and obvious way, one needs to form a party, participate in GE etc.'
There are other things that also needs to be done. And this is where I think the real value-add of a blogger is, the ability to engage the reader individually, fielding comments and learning new things all the time and raising the level of discourse unheard of and disallowed in state-controlled media.
I also think that's what the most misunderstood person this side of the Local Blogsphere, Han, is fighting against; donkeys that wear hats.
Bloggers don't seem to be doing this for an ultimate political end, and yet, either side of the political spectrum may get the ultimate benefit since a discerning constituent is good for the country either way. So, take heart, Goh, it's not as bad as it looks. For a start, Net ettiquette really needs to be looked at. And yes, it's another Opposition party's problem, but Oppositions keep getting lumped together; not your fault, I know. (Again, it's just because of the big 'O' hypothesis.) :)
To finish: bloggers are generally (as far as I can tell) equal-opportunity commentators/writers/anti-asshats fighters. Don't believe, just ask Han. LOL
For the record, even as a partisan individual, I have experienced the same type of psychological FEAR as anyone out here. I reasoned with my own FEAR and I won it.
However, there are REAL people, social activists out there who are willing to be identified WITH an opposition party like SDP. The recent Death Penalty issue has raised awareness among performers from Substations and the rest, to come together to put up performances for the cause. The initial apprehension of FEAR is understandable.
For internet activists like bloggers, they too could play a role if they want to, not necessarily partisan role. I am of the view that if you want a healthy development for Singapore's political landscape, everyone has a role to play. Partisan politics may only appeal to a small fraction of people, that's fine. But what we need urgently now is activists of all kinds, be it internet, social of political activists, to be actively seeking social-political space in this regime.
As for SDP using Gilbert's article, I would agree that it is impolite not for SDP to ask Gilbert's permission first. I would normally ask permission from writers to put up their writings on my blog. However, SDP did credit the article to Gilbert. Maybe SDP is just too used to cut and paste news articles which are in public domain.
Gilbert is unhappy about SDP quoting his article basically because he is unhappy to be portrayed as somebody "identifying" with an opposition party like SDP. That's fully understandable. I think for any opposition political parties to seek his permission would end up with a big NO.
But look at it from another perspective, if we want to develop into a matured democratic society, why should one be FEARFUL to be identified with any political parties? It is perfectly normal for non-partisan activists to stand side by side with any oppositionists in any countries out there to fight for a particular cause. But in Singapore, why the apprehension?
I have once talked to friend about this, he is fearful. I told him, if you cannot eradicate this fear, what will happen to your children?
Jeffrey is right, bloggers do play a part subtlely. But play it wise and right. The pen (or now, computer/net) is mightier than the guns.
Goh Meng Seng
singaporealternatives.blogspot.com
There you go again Meng Seng :) Why assume that it's FEAR? Perhaps that accounts for some of the reactions, but I'm just not convinced that it is really such a determinative factor. At the very least, it is only one possible factor in a very complex cocktail. Perhaps some are just not interested enough, value their privacy more, have other ambitions, more detached/academic in their stake, etc., etc.?
But I think what bloggers such as Jeff, myself and others are getting at is simply a plea that our stated goals be taken as they are, that we not be hastily conscripted for the purposes of others. Here's a clue: my suspicion is that many bloggers are rather individualist people, fiercely jealous of what autonomy they(we) enjoy. Not that we cannot cooperate or work together, but even when we do, we'd rather that it's because we are individually convinced of the soundness of the cause rather than just 'roped in' (or even 'associated') without ado.
A quirk no doubt, but bear with us :)
Dear huichieh,
It is an interesting dissection you have here. If not FEAR, then what?
Interests? Choice? My friend used to present the same argument...oh, its a matter of choice. It takes a while of probing that eventually he himself realize that it is pure FEAR to start with.
We have to be truthful to ourselves. If its FEAR, its FEAR.
Especially so for people who are "courageous" enough to go onto the net to talk about political stuffs on the net, if there isn't any "seeds" of "interests" they won't have done so. Choice? What choices have they made and based on what they have made that choices?
It may not be that it is total FEAR that is in play, but in Singapore's context, this is a too common theme. Before I step into WP, I also told myself, I am only to become an internet armchair critic and I have justified my position vigorously in internet forums for standing on the sideline; of my rights of choice of doing so.
It only takes a simple test for me to realize, it is not my "principles" or "choice" that provides me that rationalization of being so. It is pure FEAR. Yes, pure FEAR. You will have to confront it directly before you understand your own psyche. I made up my mind to pay WP HQ a visit on one fine Monday evening. The old WP HQ has a long, eerie, dark staircase. I was standing right in front of the staircase but my feet sunk into the floor. Heart beats increased. Palms sweating. Yes, this is Pure FEAR. Up till then, I thought I was "brave" and "courageous" and it is not FEAR that prevented me from partisan politics but purely choice. I was totally wrong and I admit defeat right on that spot.
I did not make it to the WP HQ that night but instead, spent the whole night trying to understand my own FEAR. I reason with it. I fought against it. I am glad I won. The rest is history.
Many people doesn't even realize their very own FEAR, just like me, until they put themselves into that challenge.
Well, I would respect your point being that it is not FEAR but a cocktail of things that prevented bloggers from identifying with opposition parties. That's fine. I will take it as it is. But I hope everyone would be truthful to themselves, face their inner FEAR headon instead of brushing it away for ego's sake.
I don't just "rope" people in. It is always a willing party that matters and that will last long. Nobody could force you to do anything if you don't like it. But my point is, one must first eradicate such psychological barriers before they could claim to have "FREEDOM OF CHOICE".
As for the owner of this blog wondering why opposition parties did not say a word over the ASTAR incident, I would say, did anyone raise any issues over JBJ or CSJ being sued bankrupted? I think the the disappointment is just mutual.
Furthermore, if any opposition parties raise this issue, it would do Mr. Chen no good. PAP govt is a govt that want face and very thin skin. It will try to "protect" its "authority" jealously. It is ok for citizens to have brushes with it but let off. But when opposition parties step in, they will just want to "prove their point" and things might get worse.
There isn't much "political capital" to be gained from this issue. Opposition parties would be painted by the local mass media as "supporting bond breakers" and "against National Interests".
Goh Meng Seng
singaporealternatives.blogspot.com
Think of it this way: let's imagine a possible world that is most like the actual world but where there is no more FEAR (i.e., makes the fewest possible changes consistent with there being absolutely no FEAR). Is there good reason to expect that many more people would join the opposition in that possible world?
My own gut-feeling answer is either "no, not really" or "a lot less than Mr. Goh expects"--a lot less people are into partisan politics the way he is so much so that even without the FEAR factor, I am just not convinced that they will line up to get involved.
Notice that I didn't deny the relevance of FEAR altogether--it obviously is determinative for specific individuals; I just don't think it's a fabulous blanket explanation. It's too sweeping (makes deep assumptions about human motivation), it is too cavaliar about the self-understanding of people who say that they are not interested, and it's too easy (for the self-esteem of certain political types, say).
But like you said, you are willing to grant the point that the explanatary cocktail may be a lot more complex, so let's rest that matter.
Incidentally, no one I know of is accusing you or the WP of "roping" anyone; yet (if anyone knows of any cases, I stand corrected; I just don't follow that sort of stuff closely enough). It was the SDP--trusting Gilbert's account of what happened--that was being rude.
Nor did I really expect (perhaps somewhat contrary to some of my fellow bloggers?) that any of the opposition parties would step in for AcidFlask--in fact, I think they did the smart thing not to. And that helped bloggers too: because doing so will only escalate the matter unnecessarily. So in that sense, there was no disappointment here.
But I am glad that you left the comments: you sound like a reasonable person, more so that some of the people I've come across at you-know-where forums.
Dear huichieh,
We do not need to construct a hypothetical world to understand this. Just take US or even Asia countries like Taiwan for example.
Taiwan has about 22 million plus citizens. Let's put it that it has 10 times more population than Singapore. But do you know how many people join the opposition political parties? (Or what we call, political participation in general)
Before Taiwan was liberalized from Marshall law, political participation on the "opposite" side is pathetic. It was just like Singapore. But after the liberalization, there is a steady growth.
If we take Singapore's opposition members at 500 people altogether (this is really an exaggeration already!) 10 times of this is 5000. But in Taiwan at the moment, DPP has 530 thousands of members!
(ref: http://www.dpp.org.tw/ ) During the early 80s, no one in Taiwan would expect this "illegal" entity to have so many members! If it is not FEAR, what is it that deter these many people from joining DPP?
If it is really something else that prevented a vibrant political development in Singapore, then I would respect that. But apparently it is not and the worse thing to happen is to have citizens who self-rationalize themselves and in the end deluded themselves that it is not FEAR that deter them from active participation. This is important because you will forever avoid solving the fundamental problem of FEAR if you don't even want to admit it is a problem at all.
Singapore in the 50s and 60s had a vibrant political landscapre. We are actually the model or leader of political development and vibrancy in this region. While other places were still controlled by colonists or warlords, we are already fighting for autonomy, democracy and independence.
But 50 years later, we become the most "politically backward" country in this region! Why is this so? Isn't it FEAR that has been installed by the regime that created this result?
I think I will leave it as it is. There is no point keep poking at people trying to point out their "problem" if they are not willing or ready to take it seriously. Of course, I might have over-generalized the situation here, but I am confident that at least 80% of the time, I am on the spot. I understand it because I have gone through the same phase before, as everybody else does.
Goh Meng Seng
Hold on a second--let's not be too sure that any Singapore-Taiwan comparison would hold just like that. (And I don't even want to go to the US case, which is by all appearances... worlds away from our situation.) Just to begin: is Taiwan under military rule (marshall law) the same as Singapore under PAP rule?(??!!) That's hyperbolic, to say the least.
Remember that thought experiment I proposed requires a possible world "most like the actual world but where there is no more FEAR"--switching to talk about Taiwan--another set of unique historical circumstances, another political culture altogether--seems a besides the point.
So let us forget about Taiwan and return to talk about Singapore.
Let me, for the sake of the argument grant two premises: (1) Singapore in the 50s and 60s had "a vibrant political landscape"--in the specific sense that there were a viable multiplicity of political parties. (2) Singapore today is one-party dominated; the others do not appear viable (however else that is described).
You ask the rhetorical question: "Why is this so? Isn't it FEAR that has been installed by the regime that created this result?"
But let's consider the known facts: remember that the PAP wasn't, like the KMT, backed by an army from day one. It had to win elections. It did not begin as the only legal party. In fact, it did not even begin as the strongest party. In the first election (1955) the PAP contested, they won 3 (out of a possible 25 seats). They routed the Liberal Front + Liberal Socialists combination in 1959 (winning 43 of 51 seats), but suffer a loss in '63 when they won 37 of 51 seats. It was only in '68 onwards that they beginning all or almost all seats.
So, to ask your question again: What happened? How was it that Singapore became dominated by one party from a baseline when that one party wasn't in a position to impose any supposed FEAR on anyone? And we can be more precise too: what happened between '55 and '59 and '68?
It is with these considerations in mind that I find the FEAR hypothesis somewhat simplistic.
And actually, it is all very irrelevant. The original question was: is FEAR the reason why people today do not join the opposition? It is not the same question as: was FEAR the reason why Singapore came to be dominated by one party from a multi-party baseline back in the 50s and 60s?
Let me assure you I am serious about this; I am just not convinced.
The question that intrigues me to no end is this: are you--and other convinced partisan types (and not necessarily opposition too)--willing to grant the possibility that someone else could really come to a different conclusion even from possibly the same set of data and yet not (for that reason alone) be unserious, irrational, brainwashed, or suffer from any variety of false consciousness? That is the
...that is the sixty million dollar question; at least for me.
woah ... wait ...
how come we mixed up fear with dislike?
mr goh, is there something you dislike that is not due to fear? i personally dislike posting at sammyboy forums, not because i FEAR the perverted weirdos and their shallow comments, i simply just have a preference.
just as i prefer not to be seen as being associated with a opposition party that i did not volunteer to support, in light of some of their style of doing things.
i wanted to save this for my own blog, but it's not like rebarb moor nor mr loy don't deserve to know of this quote from a recent awesome movie:
OBI-WAN: From the Sith!!! Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil.
ANAKIN: From the Jedi point of view! From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
unfortunately there isn't a clear cut good and bad, the jedi code versus the dark side, fear or courage, to many things in real life.
hmm..
just a quick and short announcement, i will not be able to maintain this blog for a few weeks (or months) as I am pursuing my first love, traveling.
it might be interesting to note that while my blog is hardly a travelogue, to me, traveling is by far an interest closer to my heart, than say, singapore politics and current affairs.
and its not really out of fear that i prefer traveling to current affairs, i'd rather call it preference
meanwhile, keep up the debates here and your own blogs (i still try to keep up with them, though i don't have time to post comments anymore:)
i want pictureS! where you traveling? we could meet up if you're coming down to chicago =P
ahh, so you're really not such a poor bugger afterall. Have fun my man!
p.s: photos would be a good idea.
Dear Loy & whiteout,
I would not rule out the possibility of "dislike" or "preference (not to)" that some would take NOT out of FEAR to be identified with an opposition party.
However, I would urge all of you here to consider probing into your own inner subconsciousness first before you come to that conclusions.
As I have said before, I used to think the way you guys assert; I thought my dis-association with any political parties is a "Choice" made on "neutrality" but I was wrong when I become mindful of my inner FEAR when put to test.
There is no need to perpetuate such FEAR and I am always the one who would stop people from pepertuating such FEAR. But for bloggers here, I find my past self which is also "disturbing" to me. One should not perpetuate such FEAR nor be ignorance of its existence within oneself.
Maybe one day, when the real test come, you will understand yourself better whether your distance from partisan organisation is truly due to "CHOICE" only or FEAR itself.
I would open my invitation to all here to visit WP HQ during the next Open House day. I will be at WP HQ on 28th May, evening 8 pm. For details, please visit www.wp.org.sg
Maybe this is just a little small step to test yourself. Observe your heart beats, observe your mind of "suspicion" of ISD agents around... be conscious of your mind.
Till then, have a good day. :)
Goh Meng Seng
hello!
St0ck For Your Review - FCPG
Current Profile
Faceprint Global Solutions (FCPG)
Current Price $0.15
A U.S. based-company dedicated to the goal of
bringing effective security solutions to the marketplace.
With violent and white-collar terrorism on the rise,
companies are starving for innovative security solutions.
FCPG is set to bring hot new security solutions to
the industry, with currently over 40 governmental and
non-governmental contracts, being negotiated.
Please Review Exactly What this Company Does.
Why consider Faceprint Global Solutions (FCPG)?
Faceprint Global Solutions (FCPG) holds the exclusive
marketing rights from Keyvelop, to sell the world�s
leading encryption technology to be distributed directly
to the Healthcare industry in North America.
Faceprint Global Solutions has completed its biometric
software that recognizes facial features of individuals
entering and leaving through airports, ship yards, banks,
large buildings, etc.
FCPG acquired Montreal-based Apometrix Technologies,
which enhances the companies mission of being a
full-service provider to the multi-application smart
card industry. The North American market appears ready
for significant expansion of price-competitive, proven,
multi-application solutions on smart cards. Apometrix's
forecast of over 300 customers and sales of more than $50
million in North America over the next five years, appears
very realistic, according to company management.
Faceprint Global Solutions is currently in contract negotiations
with over 40 governmental agencies and businesses seeking to use
their encryption, biometric, and smart-card technologies.
Breaking News for Faceprint Global Solutions (FCPG)
Faceprint Global Solutions (FCPG) is pleased to announce that
IBM will now offer the world�s leading encryption software to
its major Healthcare clients in North America.
With FCPG owning the exclusive North American rights to distribute
the worlds leading encryption and transmission software developed by
Keyvelop, FCPG is poised to capture large volumes of sales generated
by customers currently using IBM�s software in the healthcare and other
industries.
�This is a very positive move for FCPG and for Keyvelop,� said FCPG
CEO Pierre Cote. �We are very happy about the decision to go with IBM.
This is a continuation of the progress made by everyone associated
with FCPG and its partners.�
Buell Duncan, IBM's general manager of ISV & Developer Relations commented,
�Collaborating with Keyvelop will ensure that we develop open solutions that
are easy to maintain and cost effective for our customers in the healthcare
and life sciences industry.�
Among other things, this new software technology which is currently
being used by a number of European healthcare companies, is used to
send any file, regardless of format or size. Encryption keys, evidence
of transmission integrity with fingerprint calculation, time-stamping
of all actions and status record updating, pre-checking sender and
receiver identities, validating file opening dates are part of Keyvelop features.
About FacePrint Global Solutions, Inc.
FCPG operates a business, which develops and delivers a variety of
technology solutions, including biometric software applications on
smart cards and other support mediums (apometric solutions). FCPG�s
products provide biometric solutions for identity authentication and a
host of smart card- and biometrics-related hardware peripherals and
software applications. Apometrix, FCPG�s wholly-owned subsidiary,
combines on-card or in-chip multi-application management solutions
with best-of-breed �in-card matching� biometrics. Keyvelop�s secure
digital envelope solution and Apometrix�s on-card biometrics work
together to produce the winning combination in the fields of security,
traceability and identity management.
Conclusion:
The examples above show the Awesome, Earning Potential of little known
Companies That Explode onto Investor�s Radar Screens. This sto,ck will
not be a Secret for long. Then You May Feel the Desire to Act Right Now!
And Please Watch This One Trade!
GO FCPG!
Disclaimer:
Information within this email contains "forward |ooking statements" within
the meaning of Section 27Aof the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of
the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve
discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans,
projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance
are not statements of historical fact and may be "forward |ooking statements".
"Forward |ooking statements" are based on expectations, estimates and projections
at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties
which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently
anticipated. We were paid a sum of three thousand USD to disseminate this information
from ir marketing. Forward loking statements in this action may be identified through
the use of words such as "projects", "foresee", "expects", "will", "anticipates",
"estimates", "believes", "understands" or that by statements indicating
certain actions "may", "could", or "might" occur. Risk factors include
general economic and business conditions, the ability to acquire and develop
specific projects, the ability to fund operations and changes in consumer and
business consumption habits and other factors over which the company has little
or no control. The publisher of this newsletter does not represent that the
information contained herein are true and correct.
I read over your blog, and i found it inquisitive, you may find My Blog interesting. My blog is just about my day to day life, as a park ranger. So please Click Here To Read My Blog
I read over your blog, and i found it inquisitive, you may find My Blog interesting. So please Click Here To Read My Blog
http://pennystockinvestment.blogspot.com
New Blog Submission Software Takes Total Domination To A whole New Level, And Allows Complete Control Over Any Market and Any Product You Sell.--Renders All Other Marketing Methods Totally Useless by Comparison"
Click here: FREE DEMO
Get any Desired College Degree, In less then 2 weeks.
Call this number now 24 hours a day 7 days a week (413) 208-3069
Get these Degrees NOW!!!
"BA", "BSc", "MA", "MSc", "MBA", "PHD",
Get everything within 2 weeks.
100% verifiable, this is a real deal
Act now you owe it to your future.
(413) 208-3069 call now 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Hi! Nice page rebrabmoor.blogspot.com! Thank you!
tramadol
http://www11.asphost4free.com/tramadolrx/Tramadol.html tramadol tramadol
Hello all Good page www.blogger.com! Thank you!
tramadol
cheap tramadol incest stories ivana fukalot
http://videosall.vidiac.com
http://ivanafukalot.forum-on.de
http://incest.forum-on.de
Hello
Best site in web
phentermine diet pills pharmacy rape videos Generic levitra buy cheap drugs cartoon incest
http://phenterminenoprescription.createmybb.com/
http://rapevideos.createmybb.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=1
http://genericlevitra.bloggingmylife.com/
http://anne.messageboard.nl/23681
Hello
nice design, great info
erotic art buy valium order viagra beastiality brother sister sex cheap phentermine forced sex asian rape adipex no prescription
[url=http://myurl.com.tw/ncn3]erotic art[/url] [url=http://myurl.com.tw/ilsr]buy valium[/url] [url=http://myurl.com.tw/i94i]order viagra[/url] [url=http://beastiality.bloggingmylife.com/]beastiality[/url] [url=http://brother-sister-sex.zj.pl/]brother sister sex[/url] [url=http://miniurl.pl/cheapphentermine]cheap phentermine[/url] [url=http://miniurl.pl/forcedsex]forced sex[/url] [url=http://miniurl.pl/asianrape]asian rape[/url] [url=http://miniurl.pl/adipexrx]adipex no prescription[/url]
http://myurl.com.tw/ncn3 http://myurl.com.tw/ilsr http://myurl.com.tw/i94i http://beastiality.bloggingmylife.com/ http://brother-sister-sex.zj.pl/ http://miniurl.pl/cheapphentermine http://miniurl.pl/forcedsex http://miniurl.pl/asianrape http://miniurl.pl/adipexrx
Enjoyed a lot! » »
Hi!
nice design on www.blogger.com, great info
Buy cheap adipex online! Buy cheap tramadol online! brother sister sex cartoon incest Buy cheapest cialis pharmacy daughter incest .
[url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheap-adipex.html]cheap adipex[/url] [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheap-tramadol.html]cheap tramadol[/url] [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/brother-sister-sex.html]brother sister sex[/url] [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/cartoon-incest.html]cartoon incest[/url] [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/daughter-incest.html]daughter incest[/url] [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheapest-cialis.html]cheapest cialis[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheap-adipex.html http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheapest-cialis.html http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cheap-tramadol.html http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/brother-sister-sex.html http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/cartoon-incest.html http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/daughter-incest.html
Hello!
Best site in web www.blogger.com!
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cialis-drug.html cialis drug [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/cialis-drug.html]cialis drug[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/generic-levitra.html generic levitra [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/generic-levitra.html]generic levitra[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/forced-sex.html forced sex [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/forced-sex.html]forced sex[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/family-incest.html family incest [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/family-incest.html]family incest[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/phentermine-37.5-mg.html phentermine 37.5 mg [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/phentermine-37.5-mg.html]phentermine 37.5 mg[/url]
http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/hardcore-fucking.html hardcore fucking [url=http://www.volny.cz/ph24/porn/hardcore-fucking.html]hardcore fucking[/url]
Hello all
nice design on www.blogger.com, great info
http://www.enunblog.com/adipexnoprescription/ adipex no prescription adipex adipex [url=http://www.enunblog.com/adipexnoprescription/]adipex no prescription[/url] buy adipex [url=http://www.enunblog.com/adipexnoprescription/]cheap adipex[/url]
http://www.enunblog.com/cheapphentermine/ cheap phentermine phentermine buy phentermine [url=http://www.enunblog.com/cheapphentermine/]cheap phentermine[/url] cheap phentermine [url=http://www.enunblog.com/cheapphentermine/]phentermine 37.5 mg[/url]
http://www.enunblog.com/rapevideos/ rape videos rape rape movies [url=http://www.enunblog.com/rapevideos/]rape videos[/url] rape video [url=http://www.enunblog.com/rapevideos/]rape porn[/url]
http://www.enunblog.com/beastiality/ beastiality beastiality beastiality porn [url=http://www.enunblog.com/beastiality/]beastiality[/url] [url=http://www.enunblog.com/beastiality/]beastiality porn[/url]
http://www.enunblog.com/buytramadol/ buy tramadol tramadol tramadol hcl [url=http://www.enunblog.com/buytramadol/]buy tramadol[/url] cheap tramadol [url=http://www.enunblog.com/buytramadol/]tramadol[/url]
http://www.enunblog.com/incestporn/ incest porn incest cartoon incest [url=http://www.enunblog.com/incestporn/]incest porn[/url] family incest [url=http://www.enunblog.com/incestporn/]cartoon incest[/url]
Hello all
Best site in web www.blogger.com!
Phentermine diet pills
phentermine 37.5 mg incest beastiality [url=http://phenterminedp.jconserv.net/]phentermine 37.5 mg[/url] [url=http://incestxxx.jconserv.net]incest[/url] [url=http://anne.messageboard.nl/24273/]beastiality[/url] http://phenterminedp.jconserv.net/ http://incestxxx.jconserv.net http://anne.messageboard.nl/24273/
Hello!
Nice site in web www.blogger.com!
Best online drugstore. Buy adipex meridia propecia hydrocodone:
http://daniell.hostuju.cz/coumadin.html coumadin [url=http://daniell.hostuju.cz/coumadin.html]coumadin[/url]
http://209384.hostuju.cz/asian-rape.html asian rape [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/asian-rape.html]asian rape[/url]
http://209384.hostuju.cz/daughter-incest.html daughter incest [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/daughter-incest.html]daughter incest[/url]
http://209384.hostuju.cz/incest-porn.html incest porn [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/incest-porn.html]incest porn[/url]
http://daniell.hostuju.cz/propecia.html propecia [url=http://daniell.hostuju.cz/propecia.html]propecia[/url]
http://209384.hostuju.cz/russian-rape.html russian rape [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/russian-rape.html]russian rape[/url]
Hello all
Good site www.blogger.com, thanks.
Cheap drugstore online. Buy coumadin meridia propecia:
http://daniell.hostuju.cz/adipex.html adipex [url=http://daniell.hostuju.cz/adipex.html]adipex[/url] http://daniell.hostuju.cz/buy-hydrocodone.html buy hydrocodone [url=http://daniell.hostuju.cz/buy-hydrocodone.html]buy hydrocodone[/url] http://209384.hostuju.cz/cartoon-incest.html cartoon incest [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/cartoon-incest.html]cartoon incest[/url] http://209384.hostuju.cz/hardcore-fucking.html hardcore fucking [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/hardcore-fucking.html]hardcore fucking[/url] http://daniell.hostuju.cz/propecia.html propecia [url=http://daniell.hostuju.cz/propecia.html]propecia[/url] http://209384.hostuju.cz/gay-rape.html gay rape [url=http://209384.hostuju.cz/gay-rape.html]gay rape[/url]
Hi!
Good design on www.blogger.com, good info.
Good Drugstore Online. Buy tramadol cialis adipex:
http://44490-0.forum.alluwant.de buy adipex online [url=http://44490-0.forum.alluwant.de]buy adipex online[/url] http://44490-0.forum.alluwant.de adipex [url=http://44490-0.forum.alluwant.de]adipex[/url] http://forced-blowjob-sex.da.cx/ forced blowjob sex [url=http://forced-blowjob-sex.da.cx/]forced blowjob sex[/url] http://incestxxx.mybbland.com family incest porn [url=http://incestxxx.mybbland.com]family incest porn[/url]
Hi!
Nice site in web www.blogger.com.
Buy cheap adipex no prescription
http://www.iwannaforum.com/adipexnop adipex no prescription [url=http://www.iwannaforum.com/adipexnop]adipex no prescription[/url] http://www.iwannaforum.com/rvideos/ rape videos [url=http://www.iwannaforum.com/rvideos/]rape videos[/url] http://incest-mature-stories.com/2007/03/10/mothers-son-incest-porn-videos/ http://glevitra.forumup.us [url=http://glevitra.forumup.us]generic levitra[/url]
Hello all
Thanks for good information. I add www.blogger.com to favorites!
Buy generic levitra online
Buy hydrocodone http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/buy_hydrocodone.html buy hydrocodone [url=http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/buy_hydrocodone.html]buy hydrocodone[/url] http://interracial-porn.ar.vg/ interracial porn [url=http://interracial-porn.ar.vg/]interracial porn[/url] Buy maridia http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/buy_meridia.html buy meridia [url=http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/buy_meridia.html]buy meridia[/url] http://anal-fucking.ve.tc/ anal fucking [url=http://anal-fucking.ve.tc/]anal fucking[/url] Generic levitra http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/generic_levitra.html generic levitra [url=http://site.voila.fr/usmeds/generic_levitra.html]generic levitra[/url] http://incest-stories.pa.kz/ incest stories [url=http://incest-stories.pa.kz/]incest stories[/url]
.. ...
hey you chee bye mother fucker you are the asshole who put the post that the bible proves this and that or whatever fuck shit right. suck my ass man. bible is written by mother fuckers like you. all you shit christians who goes to charismatic churches are brain washed. how come i never see any Buddhists making everyone so pissed off. the problem is YOU!
Post a Comment
<< Home